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Re: [registrars] Variations on the current domain name model - proposed registrar workshop for Luxembourg
The only responses I've seen to my message (admittedly,
I've only done a quick scan - I'm actually off site for
the next two weeks and supposed to be doing things other
than my normal Tucows responsibilities...so I must be
brief...) further elaborate on the problems that other
people are having with the system. IP problems are
probably best championed by the IP constituency, Registry
problems are best championed by the Registry constituency.
My primary point is that this constituency has a large
problem with managing workflow and we need to focus on
dealing with the priorities that we have in front of us
and not falling prey to every shiny agenda item that
someone drops in our lap.
These behaviors don't add to my cost, they don't cause me
problems accessing the registry and my customers aren't
complaining about the practice. I have some sympathy for
Bob's indication that this is tying up some population of
domain names from getting into the hands of paying
customers, but as a percentage of the whole, I'd wager
that this is in fact a very small amount.
Regulating add grace is simply going to add to the amount
of regulation that registrars have to contend with. It is
not going to stop the cred/thread race, it is not going to
force the release of domain names after they expire, its
not going to cause an increase or decrease in the cost we
pay to the registries and it certainly isn't solving some
burning customer service issues we have.
Unless we're strictly talking about making the numbers
look pretty, I'm having a hard time understanding why this
is an issue that we need to be concerned with.
On Tue, 31 May 2005 10:30:28 -0700
"Jay Westerdal" <jwesterdal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ross,
Let me brief you on the abuse that is taking place.
I still don't really see what
our issue is or why we would possibly care about what
arguments VGRS may or may not have...
For one, abuse of IP rights. Several of the domains being
registered for 4 days are typo names. Very famous marks
that
do receive traffic. Try and to a UDRP on a domain that
lasts
4 days and has no whois record. Two, a registrar is not
required to publish the whois record for five days.
Hence,
they could continually hide an abuser who is doing the
registrations for 4 days and leave no way to stop that
abuse
on their mark. Three, 400K domains today. Yes in the
future
months it will be millions of domains a day. A scale
that would
eclipse Tucows in size just to monetize, delete, and
start over.
All at no cost to them, the cost will be paid but it
will not
be by them.
I have given it more thought and I believe each
registrar
should receive 100 free deletes a month to allow for
testing.
Then after that 1 free delete per 200 domains
registered.
Registries would charge $0.75 for any delete in the 5
day
grace period exceeding their quota.
Verisign has said over and over again that they are
powerless
to stop it as they are contractually obligated to allow
the
abuse. Only a consensus policy could force the abuse to
halt.
This may not be the most pressing issue Registrars face
but
it is one that causes pain to IP holders and they are
our
registrars' customers. I believe we should act. Please
discuss
the motion I have drafted, I would like to formally
submit it
to the list on Friday after it gets more baked.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Mitchell, Champ
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:29 AM
To: Tim Ruiz; Ross Rader
Subject: RE: [registrars] Variations on the current
domain name model -
proposed registrar workshop for Luxembourg
With due respect to Ross, I do not see our bylaws or
website as "burning
priority issues". I can agree that whois and transfers
are probably more
important to us than this. However, don't you think that
the diminution
in threads per registrar and the whole game of creating
registrars for
no reason other than to get more threads, often jut to
lease them, is a
direct result of the grace period? I do. If they
couldn't use the grace
period in an unintended and inappropriate manner to
avoid cost and risk,
they would not do hundreds of thousands of registrations
with the
intention to keep only the small fraction that appear
profitable. Even
more abusive is the register, delete, reregister scam
--- and scam is
what it is. Inevitably this impacts all legitimate
registrars.
Ross, I would never claim to be as knowledgeable as you
about the
intricacies of the domain registration system, but over
30 years of
experience has taught me that when one of my suppliers
is slammed, I
always end up paying part of the cost.
I completely agree with you that the registries,
particularly VeriSign,
have the power to have addressed this long ago and have
failed to act.
Frankly, I don't understand why, although I have heard
its rationale.
Clearly you are right that they should take the lead.
However, this does
not change the fact that ultimately the legitimate
registrars suffer
from this conduct and, if as it appears on its face,
this is an abuse
that can be easily corrected, it would seem that we
should support a
correction. Best, Champ
W. G. Champion Mitchell
Chairman & CEO
Network Solutions Inc.
(703) 668-5200
NetworkSolutions
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Tim Ruiz
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:05 AM
To: Ross Rader
Cc: jwesterdal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
Bruce.Tonkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
registrars@xxxxxxxx; faure@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [registrars] Variations on the current
domain name model -
proposed registrar workshop for Luxembourg
I agree that registries should be concerned about this
practice. They
may see some short term benefit to this activity but it
will be short
lived.
Already there is at least one user doing repetative adds
and deletes for
the same names to apparently benefit from the traffic
without ever
really paying for the names.
In some cases these names infringe on the IP rights of
others but not
long enough to always be seen.
It may only be a few players today but I don't think we
should be short
sighted about this. Unchecked it WILL become many
millions of names per
day.
Tim
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